I figured I'd weigh in on the issue a bit myself here.
The first time I ever heard of that term Space Marine was in the Alien movie series I believe, so I'm pretty sure that if they are really going to try to fight this there will be some problems from a certain well known movie studio for starters...
From their statement below, it appears (or can be inferred ) that they think they own a lot more that they are letting on...
~Editor's Note Games Workshop's Facebook page has been taken down for "planned maintenance". Could be perhaps be because of the public backlash over this whole episode altogether? All I know is, I never had to take down my Facebook for "maintenance"...
Games Workshop owns and protects many valuable trademarks in a number of territories and classes across the world. For example, 'Warhammer' and 'Space Marine' are registered trademarks in a number of classes and territories. In some other territories and classes they are unregistered trademarks protected by commercial use. Whenever we are informed of, or otherwise discover, a commercially available product whose title is or uses a Games Workshop trademark without our consent, we have no choice but to take reasonable action. We would be failing in our duty to our shareholders if we did not protect our property.
To be clear, Games Workshop has never claimed to own words or phrases such as 'warhammer' or 'space marine' as regards their general use in everyday life, for example within a body of prose. By illustration, although Games Workshop clearly owns many registered trademarks for the Warhammer brand, we do not claim to own the word 'warhammer' in common use as a hand weapon.
Trademarks as opposed to use of a word in prose or everyday language are two very different things. Games Workshop is always vigilant in protecting the former, but never makes any claim to owning the latter.
What makes me giggle even more is that apparently someone is actually on payroll at GW scowering the internet- spending time shutting down self published book authors.
Meanwhile there are tons of IP violating merchandise from clocks to t-shirts to buttons and fake Forge World flooding eBay and Amazon everyday.
Plus word on the street is that there have been some very interesting developments regarding the ongoing GW vs. Chapterhouse case, in regards to trademarking as well. Interesting times indeed....
But for now it seems that all is well again... sort of.. see below
Score one for the space marines.
Last month, a UK game developer, Games Workshop, complained to Amazon.com that an ebook, Spots the Space Marine, infringed its trademarks in the term “space marine.” Turns out Games Workshop sells a popular game, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, and has registered marks in the term “space marine” in connection with games. But Games Workshop lost all sense of proportion and decided that it also had trademark rights to the term in books. And thus a trademark bully was born.
... We were able to intervene and, to Amazon’s credit, the company reviewed the claim and restored the book. Let’s hope Games Workshop will now have the good sense to realize the bullying has to stop.
So...what do you think of this current piece of work? -MBG
From Faeit and BoLS
Games Workshop Hits National News
Well, its gone a little bit international now. yesterday I read in various places that Games Workshop is suing over the term "Space Marine", and now this seems to be blowing up in GW's face everywhere.
What happened is this.
Mid December Maggie Hogarth discovered that her book called "Spots the Space Marine" had been removed from the Amazon ebook store following a complaint by Games Workshop. Games Workshop says that its entry into digital publishing gives it "common law trademark claim over the term Space Marine.
On February 5th Maggie blogged on her own blog about the incident, and of course I am including a link to be BBC article on GW's claim to the term "Space Marine". This one doesnt look good GW. Think its time to back off?
via the BBC (for the entire article follow the link)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003
A spokesman for Games Workshop said it had a "blanket policy" of not talking to the media and had no comment to make about the row or its trademark claim.
Media and intellectual property lawyer Susan Hall from DWF said Games Workshop might struggle to assert its trademark claim in America.
"In the US they'll come straight up against the First Amendment and that's one issue they'll have to overcome," she said.
via Maggie Hogarth on her blog MCAH (the author involves speaks out)
http://mcahogarth.org/?p=10593
In mid-December, Games Workshop told Amazon that I’d infringed on the trademark they’ve claimed for the term “space marine” by titling my original fiction novel Spots the Space Marine. In response, Amazon blocked the e-book from sale [original post and update]. Since then, I’ve been in discussion with Games Workshop, and following their responses, with several lawyers.
To engage a lawyer to defend me from this spurious claim would cost more money than I have, certainly more than the book has ever earned me. Rather than earning money for my family, I’d be taking money from them, when previously my writing income paid for my daughter’s schooling. And I’d have to use the little time I have to write novels to fight a protracted legal battle instead.
In their last email to me, Games Workshop stated that they believe that their recent entrée into the e-book market gives them the common law trademark for the term “space marine” in all formats. If they choose to proceed on that belief, science fiction will lose a term that’s been a part of its canon since its inception. Space marines were around long before Games Workshop. But if GW has their way, in the future, no one will be able to use the term “space marine” without it referring to the space marines of the Warhammer 40K universe.
I used to own a registered trademark. I understand the legal obligations of trademark holders to protect their IP. A Games Workshop trademark of the term “Adeptus Astartes” is completely understandable. But they’ve chosen instead to co-opt the legacy of science fiction writers who laid the groundwork for their success. Even more than I want to save Spots the Space Marine, I want someone to save all space marines for the genre I grew up reading. I want there to be a world where Heinlein and E.E. Smith’s space marines can live alongside mine and everyone else’s, and no one has the hubris to think that they can own a fundamental genre trope and deny it to everyone else.
At this point I’m not sure what course to take. I interviewed five lawyers and all of them were willing to take the case, but barring the arrival of a lawyer willing to work pro bono, the costs of beginning legal action start at $2000 and climb into the five-figure realm when it becomes a formal lawsuit. Many of you don’t know me, so you don’t know that I write a business column/web comic for artists; wearing my business hat, it’s hard to countenance putting so much time and energy into saving a novel that hasn’t earned enough to justify it. But this isn’t just about Spots. It’s about science fiction’s loss of one of its foundational tropes.
I have very little free time and very little money. But if enough people show up to this fight, I’ll give what I can to serve that trust. And if the response doesn’t equal the level of support I would need, then I still thank you for your help and your well wishes. For now, step one is to talk about this. Pass it on to your favorite news source. Tell your favorite authors or writers’ organizations. To move forward, we need interest. Let’s generate some interest.
GW Legalwatch: A Tale of Three Press Releases
Sometimes the internet does more than just scream and hurl dung! Here is how that tale of Game's Workshop and Amazon's takedown of an independent author's book using the phrase "space marine" went down...
First up, you should all catch up on how it all started here.
OK,
Within 24 hours, BBC picked up the story and it was off to the races. It quickly became a meme and Will Wheaton, Popehat, the President of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writer's of America, and others jumped on the bandwagon. By end of day Friday we saw three press releases from the major players. They all tell a slightly different tale, but I'm sure you can read between the lines and figure out how it went down.
The author M.C.A. Hogarth
Last night many of you alerted me to the reappearance of the e-book edition of Spots the Space Marine on Amazon. I hope you’ll join me in applauding Amazon’s decision to reinstate the book. Amazon and other major retailers have given me wonderful opportunities as an independent author, not just in e-books but in print and audiobooks. The stories I’ve sold to magazines launched my writing career but it’s the sales I make from these outlets that allow me to buy food for my family.
...I tell my daughter that there’s magic in the world and that human beings are responsible for creating it. You all have proved that decisively. I’ll never forget the past few days, and for that I and my family thank you earnestly from the depths of our hearts.
Space marines forever!
The Electronic Freedom Foundation
Score one for the space marines.
Last month, a UK game developer, Games Workshop, complained to Amazon.com that an ebook, Spots the Space Marine, infringed its trademarks in the term “space marine.” Turns out Games Workshop sells a popular game, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, and has registered marks in the term “space marine” in connection with games. But Games Workshop lost all sense of proportion and decided that it also had trademark rights to the term in books. And thus a trademark bully was born.
... We were able to intervene and, to Amazon’s credit, the company reviewed the claim and restored the book. Let’s hope Games Workshop will now have the good sense to realize the bullying has to stop.
Games Workshop (via their Facebook page)
Games Workshop owns and protects many valuable trademarks in a number of territories and classes across the world. For example, 'Warhammer' and 'Space Marine' are registered trademarks in a number of classes and territories. In some other territories and classes they are unregistered trademarks protected by commercial use. Whenever we are informed of, or otherwise discover, a commercially available product whose title is or uses a Games Workshop trademark without our consent, we have no choice but to take reasonable action. We would be failing in our duty to our shareholders if we did not protect our property.
To be clear, Games Workshop has never claimed to own words or phrases such as 'warhammer' or 'space marine' as regards their general use in everyday life, for example within a body of prose. By illustration, although Games Workshop clearly owns many registered trademarks for the Warhammer brand, we do not claim to own the word 'warhammer' in common use as a hand weapon.
Trademarks as opposed to use of a word in prose or everyday language are two very different things. Games Workshop is always vigilant in protecting the former, but never makes any claim to owning the latter.
~ And everyone lived happily ever after - or something like that. Even more on this in the Lounge here. Enjoy...
OK. It boils down pretty simply. A lawyer looking to make work for himself searches for Space Marine on the web. An author who apparantly lives under a damn rock puts the words Space Marine in the title of her book. GW issue a cease and desist to Amazon - which would be fixed by changing the title to any one of nine thousand alternatives - massively overreact and pull the book. An affronted author whips up an online mob. GW back off.
ReplyDeleteThis has stupidity every sodding where. The author was stupid, Amazon were stupid and GW were stupid. But here's the thing, this is an issue that they COULD NOT WIN. When they don't try to defend themselves they wind up with Chapterhouse and Kromlech (who are becoming more cheeky). When they do defend themselves there will always be issues like that on the raggedy edge of trademark use.
Ultimately, in my view, it is the author's problem. If you are creating a new product in a field then you research the field. NO ONE in the sci-fi community can claim to be ignorant of space marines. You can only enforce a trademark if you are aware of it, call the book ANYTHING but Spots the Blummin Space Marine and it will never be noticed.
In the end this is what happened: A book that 6 people had heard of ever is now well known. GW haters have another poorly understood and over simplified soundbite to throw at the rest of us. Oh, and if my facebook page was being spammed with ignorant hate mail it would have gone down for maintenance too.
Hello sir, I am with Games Workshop and you are in violation of our copyright of Space Marine, please shut down your site or we will take legal action against you. (heheheheheh)
ReplyDeleteI think you might find that if GW hadn't stolen everything that they call 'IP' from sci-fi and fantasy authors that didn't trademark their inventions they wouldn't have to defend their 'IP' in this way now. Serves them right I say.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Partially by EFF who is trying to push for more internet freedom so they have motivation to make it sound worse than it is. The book is actually back up so GW may have backed off or Amazon may have figured they didn't want the bad press, either way the internet has declared victory and is very busy touching itself over it at the moment.
ReplyDeleteLet's be clear though: IP laws are very complicated, it's not as cut and dry as people would have others believe, and a lot of people with axes to grind have been very busy grinding said axes.
equally the distinction between copyrights and trademarks is one that the internet rarely bothers to examine. Sadly the internet likes short soundbites not complex issues.
ReplyDeleteJeff stop being a fan boy. The idea and usage of Space Marines have been around a lot longer than GW. In writing it has been around since 1932, used in various forms by 9 different authors before 40K was published. In film there are 5 TV series or movies that use the concept, some actually even using the term Space Marine, before the publication of 40K. In gaming there are 6 various usages of the Space Marine, again some of them even using the term Space Marine to describe them. GW does not and never had a solid claim to the word or concept.
ReplyDeleteahhh, the good old "you don't think think GW are evil therefore a fanboy" angle. Nice to know the classics are still there. Read GW's own statement, they don't claim the word or concept, trademark is all about context. Have you read Spots the Space Marine? I haven't. So how do you know that they don't have a solid claim in this case.
ReplyDeleteCopyright != Trademark ;)
ReplyDeleteGood to see some actual sense being spoken on this issue and good to see some people using actual facts as part of the discussion.
ReplyDeleteTwo points from me. In Aliens they are Colonial Marines, not Space Marines.
and most annoyingly: whether the term has been in general use or not is irrelevant. It is the term's use as a brand that is important.
I don't see anyone disputing the brand "Coke", a term which has been in use for centuries but best of luck trying to brand a softdrink with the term.
Gary is absolutely right, to put blame on the author for using a term that has been used since before GWs time is just stupid, it's as plain as the article puts it... the success of such the franchise rode on the past authors and creative minds previous to them. In particular for GW for overreacting over it and not reading their actual paperwork before proceeding with a claim. Someone didn't read the fine print as it seems. Someone from GW needs to switch on their brains.
ReplyDeleteI think you're meaning copyright does not = trademark ?
ReplyDeleteThe other should take this case to U.S. law schools. Law schools, especially in the top tier, have legal clinics that work on such issues. Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteIf I write a post apocalyptic dystopian game and call it Fallout I can expect a visit from Bethesda's lawyers. Fallout has existed as a term since the fifties. I could have giant naked mole rats and a brotherhood of steel throughout and if I didn't call it Fallout then they wouldn't care unless directly brought to their attention. If you actually read my post I note that EVERYONE in this debacle was stupid. I just think the author was more stupid than most.
ReplyDeleteAnd isn't it interesting that BoLS have an almost identical, but not quite as well put together post shortly after it is posted here?
ReplyDeleteThat is what != means.
ReplyDeleteAh I see, I thought it was =/=
ReplyDeleteYou don't even have to read the book. The term being in the title is all you need and I think it reasonable to suggest that a person purchasing a book with Space Marine in the title could think they were buying a GW product.
ReplyDeleteThis whole problem could have been solved quietly and easily by the author changing the title of the book, even is only subtly. Spots of the Space Marine Corps, Spots SMC, Spots the Astro Marine.
Any one of these combinations would have shown that the book is completely unrelated to GW, something I'd have thought the author would want unless .........
So whats the next word? Beastmen ? Whaag ? Wyrdstone? Skavens? ....
ReplyDeleteGW is going too far again.
Don't confuse inspiration with IP.
ReplyDeleteFew Sci-fi authors can claim "clear title" to any of the concepts in their books.
What GW do claim is the IP over things that they create such as the mini's and the actual writings within the codices and rulebooks etc.
They don't claim the ideas, no one can.
Much easier to click an arrow or a thumbs up/down or a "like" than to actually read, understand and formulate an opinion on something.
ReplyDeleteYes. But if you were to write a book about nuclear fallout turning people into monsters and named that book Fallout, Bethesda could not sue you. Likewise with this book. The writer was writing about the USMC in space. The only traits the book has in common with GW's IP is marines.in.space. There was and is no trademark infringement. In case it's not clear: even a drooling ape could differentiate between the two products. Thus, no infringement and no case. The author wasn't stupid. GW was. They picked a fight they couldn't win and lost.
ReplyDelete!= Means does not equal in Boolean expressions
ReplyDeleteYour next 'word' point is invalid. Please read the trademark rules on GWs site they have been there for YEARS. the word as a name Space Marine has been trademarked for almost as long as GW has made them.
ReplyDeleteGreat write up about the whole thing, man!
ReplyDeleteIt really is one of those strange things that they would pursue this lady ahead of the HUGE amount of counterfeits and the such...
Everyone already said all the stuff i want to say, so i will just say "ditto"
Space Marine isn't mentioned in the Aliens movies at all...........
ReplyDeleteAccording to one of the staff at my local GW, its the US legal team that has a habit of being OTT agressive, not the british(the head office) legal team. They've recieved several slaps on the wrist in the past from head office and this is likely going to be another one of them. He seemed pretty frustrated by it as I can imagine a lot of people in and out of GW are.
ReplyDeleteGW does hunt for illegal merchandisers, however ebay's Vero system is a piece of crap and only protects copyright holders in areas where the copyright is lodge. Also Vero does not protect against "as new", "custom made" and second hand items being sold.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Heinlein Estate should sue GW. Clearly, GW got their Space-marine-in-power-armor from Starship Troopers.
ReplyDeleteWrong. The author has a right to call her space marines space marines just as GDW/Traveller had Space marines in its games long before GW started ripping everyone off to make its games.
ReplyDeleteThe only one being stupid here is GW
Then what was thier issue with spots the space marine?
ReplyDeleteWhy should she be forced to use different terms for a common concept just because someone else uses that term? Marines in space are space marines. You can not own that.
ReplyDeletemarines in space
ReplyDelete